Looking at pictures of people

Recently, I had a discussion with th my friends Dustin and Andy (yes, in a chatroom), about appreciating art. I thought I would share the transcript with you guys because it felt like a productive conversation.

dsal: thegreattiny, pictures of people are weird. It's hard to look at a picture of someone I don't know and see a person.
thegreattiny: o rly? interesting
thegreattiny: is that true for photos I take of people you don't know?
dsal: Yeah. I don't think that's the best way to express it… but it's a kind of weird thing. Most pictures of anonymous people just feel kind of dead.
thegreattiny: I've heard that before
thegreattiny: but I think you are in the minority with that feeling
dsal: I have to wonder if it's similar for other people. I saw a photo for sale in a coffee shop in Seattle. It was just some old lady. Why do I want your picture of an old lady?
thegreattiny: well i haven'ts een the photo
dsal: I suppose that's good. It's my inhuman side showing.
thegreattiny: lol uh oh
thegreattiny: robotic dustin
thegreattiny: people have a really easy time connecting to anonymous people, actually
thegreattiny: most people
thegreattiny: it's sort of depressing to hear you say that, actually
dsal: I've been accused of being a robot before...
thegreattiny: because I base a lot of my artwork on making images of what are, I think, real people
thegreattiny: and that goes for people I make up when I draw
dsal: I don't think you should have any sort of emotional reaction to how I might perceive artwork. :/
thegreattiny: it's like writing a character, but more subtle
thegreattiny: well that's silly, dsal, because art is communication
thegreattiny: it's not a one-sided equation
thegreattiny: and if on my side, I think I'm creating communication, but on your side, it's not being perceived
thegreattiny: that is sad
thegreattiny: not that I'm making artwork specifically for you, but that's irrelevant
dsal: Different people respond to different media differently, though. I like to know people in more depth. A picture can tell a good story, but I just don't feel like I know enough when it's over.
thegreattiny: I would hope that that depends on the picture
thegreattiny: it's hard to imagine that no photo of a person, no matter how good, could ever communicate with you
dsal: Well, it does. It also depends on how willing to be receptive I am at that moment.
thegreattiny: alright
thegreattiny: I'm not sure why you would ever limit yourself in that way
dsal: Mostly because of time. :)
thegreattiny: well then, given enough time, would you be able to figure out why someone would want a photo of an old lady?
dsal: It's possible, but I'm not sure it'd be from looking at the picture alone. I'd want to know more about who she was.
thegreattiny: what if it's a real person, who is a stranger
thegreattiny: would you be able to know much about them, just by looking at them?
dsal: Well, there are more dimensions to a real person. I can observe movement, actions, words, etc… I can learn a lot about a person by observing. At least enough to satisfy me.
termie: dsal, i think it is less about knowing somebody and more about imagining things
dsal: termie, I would believe that. I feel like imagining is kind of lying.
dsal: I imagine things I want to build and then make them true.
termie: dsal, you're not going to actually know the person from the photo but ideally the photographer and photograph is trying to draw you to some archetypal ideal of what this person's life is like
termie: you aren't trying to know the person but rather to think about what being old is like
termie: or what being is old is like when you work in a convenience store
dsal: That makes sense.
termie: in some photographs you can infer stuff about people assuming the photographer's intent is to show you something about them, but that is usually a person you know of, either famous or an acquaintance
termie: pictures of them brushing their teeth or something
termie: so that you can infer about them whatever you would have inferred if you saw them brushing their teeth that way
thegreattiny: I agree with termie. It's really about buying into the story the photographer (and to some extent, the model) are trying to tell
termie: but again, that is usually for somebody whose outer character you will already be familiar with
termie: and whose more intimate moments are being shared
dsal: Perhaps the example I gave above was just a poor one.
thegreattiny: well there is no way of knowing
thegreattiny: well I have a photo of two people who are unfamiliar to you
thegreattiny: that I think tells a story
thegreattiny: I think it's fairly successful in that way
dsal: Where is it?
thegreattiny: you may not agree
thegreattiny: I am about to link it
dsal: *anticipates*
thegreattiny: linky!
termie: i hope it isn't in any way romantic
dsal: I hope it's NSFW
thegreattiny: nsfw?
termie: i get it, she's weary after a hard lay from the mountain man dude
dsal: kidding
dsal: hahaa
thegreattiny: um
thegreattiny: that's awkward
termie: *wins*
chiragrules: hahahahaha
thegreattiny: k well so much for the discussion on art and communication
dsal: Nah, that's a better picture. You should sell that to coffee shop patrons in Seattle.
dsal: Although I do very quickly feel that I want to know the truth. What's the real story...
thegreattiny: well
thegreattiny: what is the story you are getting from the photo?
termie: "tl; dr"
dsal: I kind of get the impression that the woman is tired/sick and the man is sad.
dsal: It just leads to ``why.'' I can't get ``why'' from the picture.
dsal: The title makes me think it's alzheimer's or something.
thegreattiny: well it's part of a set
thegreattiny: but really, I think it stands alone
thegreattiny: I don't put that much influence on titles
thegreattiny: although, your title interpretation is not incorrect :)
dsal: Right, so that changes the picture a lot for me.
thegreattiny: I think it's fair for you to process whatever information you are presented with and extrapolate from there
thegreattiny: maybe my communication isn't that clear in that instance
dsal: I'm bad at both sides of art in ways.
thegreattiny: I mean I could tell you the story behind this photo
thegreattiny: but if you're not presented with the luxury of having someone explain it you
thegreattiny: I would hope you would still be able to enjoy it
thegreattiny: in a gallery situation, for instance, you could put a piece of paper next to the work with the "artist's intent" but I think that's sort of a copout
thegreattiny: and it doesn't work out, necessarily, in a situation where you sell a work to someone and they put it up in their home
dsal: I agree with your perspective. I have to do similar things. I do feel that word count is inversely proportional to truth.
thegreattiny: hm
thegreattiny: to a point, I'd say
thegreattiny: because the fewer the words, the more is left up to interpretation
thegreattiny: and once you let people loose with interpretation... well you know, people are dumb, etc
dsal: In another channel, I'm watching a lot of discussion about an article that was written with far too many words to be understood. Too many words == "looks too complicated."
dsal: It's not so much interpretation as it is just saying what something is concisely.
thegreattiny: I didn't disagree with you, per se
dsal: I had a thing I built in the past where I defined three rules for its operation. People would come by and ask me all these really complicated usage questions. I'd just apply their question to my three rules hoping they'd learn to do so themselves.
thegreattiny: I was just saying that your statement was too cut/dry
dsal: I certainly agree. Sometimes things are simple, but require effort to internalize the simplicity of them.
thegreattiny: interestingly, in terms of art
thegreattiny: if you do not provide an explanation
thegreattiny: people (well, some people) tend to get quite attached to their own interpretation
thegreattiny: and that is some of the rationale behind not explaining
thegreattiny: it's a fine balance
thegreattiny: because overexplaining is boring and insulting to the viewer
dsal: Heh, yeah. I saw an explanation of the song ``Smells Like Teen Spirit'' a while back and it's a great example of that.
thegreattiny: ie, I want to show that the person in this image is creative, so I show them painting, or just hell, holding brushes or something
thegreattiny: that's like ... "shuddup"
dsal: Yeah. Sometimes you can find that someone understood what you were doing even better than you did. That happens to me sometimes. :)
thegreattiny: then there's the opposite side of that, where you don't show anything interesting about a person
thegreattiny: it's a fine balance
thegreattiny: between not giving enough and giving too much
thegreattiny: as for people understanding what you're doing better than you
thegreattiny: lol
thegreattiny: yes that does happen
thegreattiny: not sure where that fits in
thegreattiny: sometimes I get annoyed at people who overinterpret what I'm doing
thegreattiny: I show them a photo I took
dsal: It's leaving them enough room to imagine why you did something.
thegreattiny: and they go on and on about what it says to htem
thegreattiny: and I'm like "suuuureee whatever you want"
dsal: Heh. ``Can we move past the one where I dropped my camera?''
thegreattiny: ;)
thegreattiny: anyway, that's sort of the rationale behind trying to sell a photo of a stranger to someone
thegreattiny: I hope this helps :D
dsal: Hah. I'm thankful for your time spent teaching me art appreciation. :)
thegreattiny: :)
thegreattiny: time well spent, as far as I'm concerned